Update on Interlog's Censorship of the Freedom-Site
From: Violet (geekgirl@samurai.com)
Wed, 06 May 1998 17:44:51
From: Lorien Gabel
Subject: Fwd: Re: Cancellation of Marc Lemire's Account
Some background on this potentially inflammatory issue:
-For a long time we have hosted Mr Lemire's web site (he has bronze account
and personal web site);
-For a long time a number of Jewish organizations have wanted us to remove
the site;
-As a policy Interlog does not censor customers use of the Internet, though
we retain the right to do so in our Terms and Conditions etc;.
-Personally I don't belive that preventing someone from expressing their
point of view is a good way of dealing with expression that is
disagreeable. That's the beauty of freedom of speech, address bad views
with good views etc. Let the market place of ideas decide etc. etc.
-Interlog is NOT a government agency and therefore by definition we are
unable to censor anyone. Censorship, in this context, is when the
government stops an individual from expressing themselves. Private
individuals and organizations are under NO obligation to be a forum for
other people's views. This is like arguing that a book publisher HAS TO
print someone's book. Obviously, private property is just that.
-All things being equal I hate the idea of removing a web site based on
content (no matter how ugly that content is). It is a slippery slope and
doing so can set an ugly precedent. Interlog is just not in a position to
monitor everything that it's subscribers do.
-This web site in particular has recently made headlines in Globe and Mail
etc.
-A number of corporate clients, and regular customers have indicated their
displeasure with our hosting this site;
-As such we made a BUSINESS DECISION to remove the customer. All monies
will be refunded. We (I) have an obligation to stay in business, pay
people etc and there was a good chance we would start losing a lot of
business.
-Incidentally IMHO pouting pressure on ISP's to remove Mr. Lemire's site is
not a good strategy. It will just force him out of jurisdiction. Where
now the site could be dealt with by Canadian law. Inevitably he will get
his site hosted with another provider in another country.
-Lemire is a dork. In fact, both sides of this issue are dorks.
-Below is my reply to an inquiry on this issue. This is Interlog's
response to this issue. If someone is getting nasty with you forward them
to me or send the e-mail to me.
Any questions please ask.
Thanks,
Lorien
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:47:44 -0400
>To: C-FAR <paul_fromm@populist.org>
>From: Lorien Gabel <lgabel@staff.interlog.com>
>Subject: Re: Cancellation of Marc Lemire's Account
>Bcc: marketing, mharrop, mgabel
>
>Paul:
>
>I agree with much of what you have to say. This decision was NOT made
based on my beliefs about what people have a right to say. In fact, I
likely agree with you on the principle of free speech/censorship etc. This
was not a decision we WANTED to make (just the opposite actually). In
fact, to be perfectly frank I think the parties on either end of this issue
are, well, equally idiots. For example, the Jewish lobby is short sighted
in my opinion (I am in fact Jewish) in that they think the best to way to
address these people is by censoring them. The best way to deal with
objectionable material is to address it head on, not ban it (IMHO). That
is what debate and the free exchange of ideas is all about. On the other
hand, Lemire and co.'s views are pretty stupid (for lack of a better word).
Further, with respect to the Internet Mr. Lemire will have his web set up
in no time. Likely in a country where he can't be touched. That's the
beauty of the Internet. Anyhow, I have no sympathy for either party.
>
>The decision was made for business reasons. I have an obligation to
shareholders, employees, suppliers etc. to stay in business, make a profit
and all that. Further, what we did was NOT censorship. Interlog is NOT a
government agency thus we can't censor anyone in the way you are referring
to. To be blunt, this is my ship and I can let whomever I want on it. I
will not analogize to Mr. Lemire anymore then I will to the Jewish News.
We did not make those statements. You should take those statements up with
the Jewish News. End of story.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Regards,
>
>Lorien Gabel
>
>At 12:58 PM 5/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>May 6, 1998
>>
>>Dear Mr. Gabel:
>>
>> It was disappointing to learn from a recent press release that
>>Interlog has joined the sorry band of censorship wannabees in Canada. Ny
>>cancelling Mr. Marc Lemire's account, apparently under pressure from
>>others, you have made Canada just a little less safe for the open and free
>>exchange of ideas.
>>
>> When that day comes that the censors -- ever greedy for further
>>power -- come to your door to take away your liberties, you may well find no
>>one there to support you. You can't be a little bit pregnant. Similarly, you
>>can't be a little bit free.
>>
>> You you be so kind as to advise who the corporations/individuals
>>were who approached you to pull the plug on Mr. Lemire. Their actions may
>>well have been in breach of the Criminal Code.
>>
>> I read with outrage and amazement the article in the CANADIAN JEWISH
>>NEWS (April 30, 1998)that Mr. Lemire's account is being cancelled because he
>>"..promote[s] genocide or incites hatred against any identifiable group."
>>That is an assertion of an offence under the Criminal Code -- Sections 318
>>and 319 to be precise. Did you make that assertion? If so, you've libelled
>>Mr. Lemire. He has never been charged or convicted of these offences. You
>>can no more accuse him of promoting genocide and hatred than someone can
>>accuse you of being a forger or possesser of kiddie porn, if you've never
>>been charged or so convicted.
>>
> >> If you did make those statements, you owe Mr. Lemire an immediate
>>apology. If you did not, you should so inform the CANADIAN JEWISH NEWS and
>>demand a correction.
>>
>> This is a story we'll continue to cover and monitor.
>>
>> Sincerely yours,
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Fromm, Editor
>> FREE SPEECH MONITOR
>>
>
>
---
`'.:'`*o'`:`'.:'`*o'`:`'.:'`*o'`:`'.:'`*o
violet@interlog.com geekgirl@samurai.com
http://www.interlog.com/~violet
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